Mikey and were having a conversation last night over MSN Messenger as I was blogging. I thought that we both made some excellent points that bore repeating.
Powered by Orphans says:
Jesus fuckshit Christ, this is scary.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
meh
Powered by Orphans says:
Yeah? You obviously didn’t see the part where they’re specifically targeting computer network engineers.
Powered by Orphans says:
They’re going after us. Directly.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
if they need someone with my talent, I’ll go.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
being misled about whether or not they’re considering it sucks, assuming Rolling Stone has it right, but I’ll still do it.
Powered by Orphans says:
If I actually thought that whatever they were doing was worth it–i.e. a WWII type scenario–I’d consider it. If I’d be working as a paid security guard for Halliburton, I’d flee the continent.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
yeah, I see your point
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
you could always try to fail the psychological exam
Powered by Orphans says:
Actually, Christine and I have discussed it… if a draft ever goes through, she’s said that she’ll move to Ireland with me.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
Ireland would be nice
Powered by Orphans says:
But I don’t think I’d have much trouble failing the psych exam.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
Probably not.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
You could always tell them that you “hate them niggers an’ womens.” I’ve heard that’s a pretty good way to not get into the military.
Powered by Orphans says:
Really?
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
… or was that jury duty…?
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
maybe it was both, I don’t know.
Powered by Orphans says:
I think jury duty.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
honestly, though (and I haven’t put a lot of thought into this or anything, so don’t hold me to this), but if a draft does come up, I’ll probably enlist whether I’m drafted or not. If I can save some 18 year old kid from going against his or her will, I’ll do it.
Powered by Orphans says:
That’s noble of you.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
I’ve always felt kind of guilty that I didn’t enlist anyway
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
I think it’s a very noble and honorable thing to do
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
Have ever since I was at my grandfather’s funeral. He was in WWII and they gave him a military burial.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
very classy
Powered by Orphans says:
I don’t think that our government, or any branch or part thereof, has any nobility left. I don’t trust anything that the government tells me, ever. And I know that ever if I wanted to, I couldn’t shake the belief that I’m being lied to. Or fighting against my own interests and the things I believe in.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
That’s the thing though – the notion of military service + nobility is an abstraction. We know right now that if we join the military, we’ll join the conflicts that are ongoing right now, and we each have opinions about those specific conflicts. The nobility – to be anyway – is the abstract that you’re serving your country and protecting your way of life.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
My mind basically works completely in the abstract, so I think it’s easier for me to convince myself that I’m ok with it.
Powered by Orphans says:
That’s the thing… I don’t believe that the American way of life is something worth fighting for anymore. I love the ideals that our country was based on: freedom, liberty, the ability to move from the very bottom of society to the top. But those aren’t the things that Americans care about anymore. Americans today care about money, TV, and ignorance. People today aren’t just ignorant of the history of our country, they *revel* in their ignorance. Try to tell them something that conflicts with what they’ve been told and they’ll shut their ears and walk away from you.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
No, you’re right, and I agree with you. Americans revel in their stupidity. My only hope is that someday – when we grow up – we’ll grow out of it, and the only way I know of to contribute to that possibility is to do what I can to preserve the rights and ideals that will allow the “rebels” to speak their mind. Despite what our country symbolizes through it’s citizenry, I still believe in the power of the founding documents. Those are what I’d be fighting to protect.
Powered by Orphans says:
Yes, but who is fighting for those ideals anymore? Certainly not the president or any of his cronies. The democratic party is pathetically weak right now, and can’t stand up to the Republicans. About the only people still trying to defend those freedoms are the “liberal whackos” at the ACLU and similar organizations. And they’re fighting a losing battle right now. If Bush gets one or maybe even two or three Supreme Court justices, you can kiss those ideals goodbye.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
I guess I don’t necessarily believe that. There are different ways to interpret the documents – literal or interpretive. The two groups just use different styles.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
But I have to admit, as a person who holds those documents as sacred, I would consider it a disgrace if they were amended to ban gay marriage.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
the documents are about freedom from oppression… it’s funny that they want to use it as a tool of oppression
Powered by Orphans says:
Yes, but once one interpretation has been set down in law, that becomes the legal interpretation of the document. Once that happens, nothing other than another ruling by the Supreme Court can do anything about that.
Powered by Orphans says:
But I agree with you there.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
Not many people know this anymore, but the founding fathers thought that the declaration of independence was the list of complaints against the king of England, not the preamble. Most people just think it was the preamble and some signatures.
Powered by Orphans says:
Yeah, well, as we’ve already agreed, most people are willfully ignorant savages.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
no kidding
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
I fucking hate people
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
it’s funny, though. About 80% of the declaration was basically “here’s why the king sucks:”
Powered by Orphans says:
It’s been ages since I read the whole thing.
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
I actually have it on my phone
Mikey [Unhand me, Yankee!] says:
I read it when I’m bored
Powered by Orphans says:
Something that really pisses me off… Washington, Adams, Hamilton, the whole lot of them–are the same people who would be considered liberals and terrorists today. No one thinks about that. No one remembers that the whole point of a democracy is to question your leaders to make sure that they do what you want them to do.
Powered by Orphans says:
For fuck’s sake, question authority, don’t blindly follow it.
There was more after that… but we inevitably digressed into a pretty explicit conversation about sex. Hey, we’re guys. That’s what we do.